Recalls, TSBs And Secret Warranties Explained - Podcast

"SteveLehto" (stevelehto) 04/07/2016 at 09:00 • Filed to: None

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When is the manufacturer required to make a repair on your car outside of warranty? What does that have to do with a Technical Service Bulletin? Do “Secret” warranties exist? These are questions I hear all the time. And here is what I say in response - in podcast form.

Generally speaking, recalls are issued by manufacturers for safety issues. As such, you do not pay for the repair and it is irrelevant if your car is within its warranty.

Technical Service Bulletins are issued by a manufacturer when it has figured out how to fix an otherwise-nagging problem which has stumped its mechanics. The mere fact that they have figured out how to fix it does not mean they will pay for the fix if you are out of warranty.

And of course, Secret Warranties are what we call those situations where the manufacturer might fix something if you complain about it properly. But the manufacturers will tell you these don’t exist. That’s why they are secret . Like all all those tigers and dragons you never saw in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon . They were there - they were just crouching and/or hidden.

Here is the audio:

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And the video:

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Steve Lehto has been practicing law for 24 years, almost exclusively in consumer protection and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! He wrote !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

This website may supply general information about the law but it is for informational purposes only. This does not create an attorney-client relationship and is not meant to constitute legal advice, so the good news is we’re not billing you by the hour for reading this. The bad news is that you shouldn’t act upon any of the information without consulting a qualified professional attorney who will, probably, bill you by the hour.

jimz > SteveLehto 04/07/2016 at 09:07

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the poster child for paint de-lamination:

seriously, I think every Lapis Blue Neon ended up mostly gray within a few years.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > SteveLehto 04/07/2016 at 09:09

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And don’t forget, recalls come in two flavors: those that are issued proactively and voluntarily by the manufacturer, and those that the government mandates be issued.

SteveLehto > jimz 04/07/2016 at 09:10

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I remember seeing so many cars on the road back in the day, just missing SHEETS of paint.

Turns out you do need to prime the cars before painting.

SteveLehto > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 04/07/2016 at 09:11

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The net result is the same for the consumer: Free fix. I think that’s a little like colleges that punish themselves before the NCAA hands down a spanking. I always thought it was a cheap way out . . . but I guess it works.

LongbowMkII > jimz 04/07/2016 at 09:15

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Nah. White mid 90's luminas. They were mostly gray by the new millennium.

jimz > SteveLehto 04/07/2016 at 09:17

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They were primed. this was in the early days of using water-borne paints, and they hadn’t worked out the compatibility between the paints and primer. They eventually worked it out though; and now some manufacturers are using a “three wet” paint process to give the layers some extra “bite” into each other.

SteveLehto > jimz 04/07/2016 at 09:21

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I talked to someone very knowledgeable at one of the big three who said that (for them) it was a process that did away with something in the priming stage. I wonder if it was the same at all three? It did happen around the same time.

jimz > SteveLehto 04/07/2016 at 09:22

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possibly. there was a big push in the industry to get rid of VOCs (volatile organic compounds) from the paint shops.

LongbowMkII > SteveLehto 04/07/2016 at 09:32

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How do parts specific extended warranties fit into this? My Cruze has an extended warranty on the water pump, cruise control and parking brake. Obviously wasn't told about this when I bought it, but the service department was very forthcoming with it so it's hard to call it hidden.

SteveLehto > LongbowMkII 04/07/2016 at 09:37

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There are varying degrees of “secret.” Since a water pump (for example) is not necessarily a safety issue, I don’t thing a mandated recall would be in order. But if a huge batch of them were bad, the MFR could probably force the supplier to eat the cost of replacing them. Probably depends on how big the problem is and whether the MFR is footing the bill or not.

LongbowMkII > SteveLehto 04/07/2016 at 09:48

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It was a mfr recall I believe. It was replaced by the dealer before it was resold CPO.

Takuro Spirit > SteveLehto 04/07/2016 at 09:59

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I once had the muffler on my CX-7 replaced on Mazda’s dime. Why? Because there was a TSB. The issue? Some people noticed sooty residue on their bumpers so Mazda changed the outlet tips of the muffler from flat, to angled. I liked the angled style better. So I told the dealer I noticed soot and wanted a new muffler.

It helped that I worked there, too, so YMMV.

SteveLehto > Takuro Spirit 04/07/2016 at 10:03

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Nice. Gotta love free stuff.

RoadsterRevolution(wants a Range Rover Classic) > SteveLehto 04/07/2016 at 10:26

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The explorer tires, I remember those. What do you have now?

SteveLehto > RoadsterRevolution(wants a Range Rover Classic) 04/07/2016 at 10:32

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I still have an Explorer.

RoadsterRevolution(wants a Range Rover Classic) > SteveLehto 04/07/2016 at 10:33

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Oh nice, did you see on Jalopnik about the takata airbags death?

SteveLehto > RoadsterRevolution(wants a Range Rover Classic) 04/07/2016 at 10:38

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Yes. Amazing how bad that situation continues to be (and getting worse).

jimz > SteveLehto 04/07/2016 at 11:44

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one thing I remembered after the fact (don’t believe you covered this) if you look up TSBs for your car, don’t just go to the dealer and ask them to do the fix described in the bulletin. Otherwise they can charge you even if the car’s under warranty. You have to actually be experiencing the problem.

for example, my Mustang had a TSB for hard shifting when cold; the fix was to remove the heavy 75w-140 gear oil and replace it with the oil for the dual-clutch transaxles. If I had gone in and said “hey can you replace the trans fluid per this TSB?” they’d respond “sure thing, that’ll be $175.” But since I went in and said “The transmission is hard to shift from 1-2 and 2-3 when cold” they referenced the TSB and did it under warranty.

Umrguy42: Add $5 for shipping and handling > SteveLehto 04/07/2016 at 12:24

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“I just talk that way” - is that cuz you’re a law talking guy? ;)

Also - you put 100K miles on a set of tires? Were they *supposed* to run that long?

Haven’t finished watching yet, but do recalls ever expire? I’ve been bad about getting my car in for some stuff, can I just take it in and say “do all the recalls!”?

SteveLehto > jimz 04/07/2016 at 12:46

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I mentioned that the TSB does not automatically get you the free repair. But I do talk really fast . . .

SteveLehto > Umrguy42: Add $5 for shipping and handling 04/07/2016 at 12:47

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I don’t believe recalls ever expire. And yes, I have gotten 100K on a set of tires more than once - when I did a TON of highway driving.

jimz > SteveLehto 04/07/2016 at 12:55

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right, I was just giving another example of how they might still charge you for it even if your car’s under warranty.

StuntmanDan > SteveLehto 04/07/2016 at 16:07

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Someone I know had the main battery fail on a 2006 Prius with 151k about a year ago. Despite the warranty for the battery only covering it until 100k, the dealer told us that the battery was actually covered up to 150k because of some problems with a cooling fan for it. Obviously, the car was over the mileage anyway, but Toyota ended up paying for parts, or half the total cost, something like that. That ‘secret warranty’ ended up saving them around $1500.

SteveLehto > StuntmanDan 04/07/2016 at 16:18

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I wonder how many people paid for that repair not knowing it could be covered if the right people stepped in to help?

StuntmanDan > SteveLehto 04/07/2016 at 16:45

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I’m sure a lot of people paid for it. On the upside, failures under 150k are so rare that two mechanics I know at different dealers have told me that they don’t happen(although they do).

Having worked at dealers for over ten years now, unless it’s a really old car, I always encourage people to bring it to the dealer because they generally can spot issues quicker and I’ve seen big issues get paid for by the manufacturer outside of warranty many times without the customer even asking about it.

Obviously that’s not always the case, since there are definitely bad dealers and good independent shops.

GreenN_Gold > SteveLehto 04/07/2016 at 17:45

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Cool pic! What am I looking at? (Not your mug, the Mopar shop)

SteveLehto > GreenN_Gold 04/07/2016 at 17:46

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That’s the “parts” counter at the Wellborn Musclecar Museum (in Alabama).

GreenN_Gold > Takuro Spirit 04/07/2016 at 17:49

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Adequate Man has posted volumes of info about sooty residue on bumbers....oh wait, bum P ers!

GreenN_Gold > SteveLehto 04/07/2016 at 17:56

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Off topic: We had a meeting today with in-house legal counsel. Mostly just educational stuff. I don’t think I would make a good lawyer. She kept telling me I was using the wrong words. For one example, I no longer have any idea what “standardized” means, I just know that I’m using it wrong apparently.

jeffco > SteveLehto 04/07/2016 at 17:56

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Didn’t listen yet, but an example of a HUGE secret warranty from years ago was when pretty much every FWD GM model would develop “rack and pinion morning sickness”, where the steering had no assist on the first couple of steering inputs after the car had sat all night. The problem, as I understood it, was these racks were made with sealed pistons or spools moving inside aluminum sleeves, and just the subtle abrasion from dirt in the fluid would erode the aluminum enough that the rubber seals couldn’t conform fully and hold fluid pressure until the seals and fluid warmed up a bit. So pretty much everyone who owned a GM FWD car more than a few years old probably had this repair done (new steering rack), but many owners, and mechanics (including us, initially) didn’t know GM had the secret warranty for this, and I think it was under 5 years and 80,000 miles, they’d replace the rack under warranty. People not aware of it got hosed and paid $600 or so out of pocket. Also wanted to say I’ve had good luck with dealers doing what they call “good faith adjustments”, essentially warranty repairs after the warranty ran out, or covering things not included in the warranty specifically. You have to be a subtle blend of insistent but polite and accommodating with the service manager, being a jerk gets you nowhere.

GreenN_Gold > SteveLehto 04/07/2016 at 17:59

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Thanks! I did a reverse image search and Google was stumped. It suggested Circle-K or McDonald’s, and I knew those weren’t correct.

SteveLehto > GreenN_Gold 04/07/2016 at 18:14

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I took the picture myself, cropped it and punched it up a bit in PShop.

His Stigness > SteveLehto 04/07/2016 at 18:26

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I don’t have time to listen to audio but I do want to weigh in with the total opposite of secret warranties: when the customer destroys the car, but tries to get the manufacturer to pay for it because the car has a similar issue.

Apparently on a certain Mini engine the timing chain tensioner is failing, requiring the replacement of said engine. People are in the process of suing BMW over it.

So, I get a Mini with said engine towed in which had the engine just stall on the freeway. Apparently the local Mini dealer looked at it and said it was not covered under warranty, including the secret tensioner one, and they needed a new engine. We replace the engine an examine the old one. First thing we notice is the insane amount of sludge (motor has around 80k miles on it) in it, which is never good, and technically the fault of the owner (more on that in a minute). When we pull the cylinder head off, we see a large hole in the #4 piston. Definitely not a timing chain issue.

So after the car is done the owner wants the old engine, as he is going to sue Mini (ha!). But, we find out the daughter (who drives the car), has only been putting regular gas in it (it requires premium, least of all because Turbo), and has been going 15k miles (mini interval, or it was) between quick lube oil changes. And that ladies and gentlemen, is how they destroyed their engine, and BMW of NA won’t pay out a single cent to these idiots!

But, these people were delusional and saying how BMW WAS GOING TO PAY! Ha! The hole in the piston is the big nail in the coffin, also incorrect oil and gas usage.

SteveLehto > His Stigness 04/07/2016 at 18:28

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I turn down cases like that all the time. People just assume you can sue someone anytime something goes wrong.

His Stigness > SteveLehto 04/07/2016 at 18:34

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Service campaigns do expire though.

sklooner > SteveLehto 04/07/2016 at 18:58

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I had an A2 Jetta that had a heater core recall, I ignored it, February on the Coquihalla at night it assploded filling the car with maple scented steam that instantly fogged the windows- get the recall done folks

1337 MR2 > SteveLehto 04/07/2016 at 19:08

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Here’s a fun one from my years as a Mitsubishi tech and service writer: many/most 2001/2002 Montero Limiteds had a recall for replacement of the rear brake accumulator. Never saw one fail, but they make a hilarious chirping noise.. anyhow, a solid 15+ years after the fact, the replacement part is failing again (making the hilarious noise once again).

The fun starts when people (usually a 5th, 6th or 7th owner) find out there was a recall and demand to have it fixed for free, even though it’s already logged as done.

To make it worse, these same 16 year old turds have ABS pumps/master cylinder modules that fail at high mileage (and do actually cause a loss of brake assist). Explaining to those people that “no, the recall does not apply to that part or part failure..” was always fun.

I do not miss Mitsubishi’s terrible product, corporate policies or their generally miserable ownership base. *sad*

Sasquatch > His Stigness 04/07/2016 at 19:08

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Had a mini come in with the tensioner issue, I bore scoped the cylinders and found markings on every piston and a whole in cylinder one. Those are interference motors where the valve and piston travel within the same area, but a different, princely times motions. When the chain jumped timing due the failing tensioner the valves where then in the way of piston. Somethings gotta give and this time it was the piston. I could buy that regular may cause some pre-detonation. But in my experience the engine throws so many codes and retards the timing before Catastrophic damage occurs. That being said I totally know where you’re coming from. Had a guy come in with a Honda Accord with 65k on it for engine noise. Found no oil in and he said he had never changed the oil since buying it new. Said he was going to sue the dealer for claiming the car was maintained free. I told all maintenance free male and is the removed the greaseable ball joints so you just replace them now. Similar with Toyotas new atf that you never replace. You just replace said transmission when it fails.

jimz > Umrguy42: Add $5 for shipping and handling 04/07/2016 at 19:17

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truck and SUV street tires have deep tread blocks and usually a firm compound, so if you do a lot of highway cruising they can last a surprisingly long time.

as opposed to the bias-ply garbage in the old days; you’d be lucky to get 10-15,000 miles on one before the sidewall blew out and/or the tread peeled off.

jimz > jeffco 04/07/2016 at 19:21

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I remember that. were those the racks which were “inside out?” meaning the tie rods connected to the rack at the center instead of poking out the ends?

911Ducktail > Umrguy42: Add $5 for shipping and handling 04/07/2016 at 19:21

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Recalls don't expire. I can put a vin for a 1981 911 SC in porsches warranty system and it'll spit out any open recall campaigns.

Mike D F > SteveLehto 04/07/2016 at 19:43

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As you stated and I can’t stress enough, when you call to complain it is a human on the other end of the phone. There might be guidelines on how much they can do, but ultimately the person on the other end of the line makes a decision.

Especially for those who always have their vehicle serviced at the dealership, when an expensive failure occurs consider calling the manufacturer in some form. Again referring to the first paragraph, I’ve seen some random things get covered by warranty that really shouldn’t have been.

On the Takata recall; there is a backlog of several months. If your vehicle applies, get in line now. Don’t wait.

Floating Adam West > His Stigness 04/07/2016 at 19:55

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It amazes me that to this day people still don’t understand the concept of needing oil changes semi-regularly. Even with full synthetic you probably shouldn’t be running 15,000 between changes. Then these same people grumble about the fact that their car needs repairs worth more than the car itself before 100k.

NHPilot > SteveLehto 04/07/2016 at 20:18

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Steve, I love your podcasts and articles and wait with bated breath for each new installment. I do however have a small complaint...One of the few joys in my life is giggling like a small child while reading the posts of a 30 year old convenience store clerk vehemently call you out on the finer points of law.

So please Steve...more articles on how getting out of tickets is rife with myth, the true meaning of “as is,” or heck...not even law based, but just refute that oldie but goodie, “91 octane gas gives my ‘82 LeBaron at least 87 more HP.”

Thanks Steve and keep ‘em comin’!

anonymic > SteveLehto 04/07/2016 at 21:18

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According to one Ford dealership I dealt with, they do. They refused to repair the faulty parking brake pawl on a Ranger that had led to several runaway parked trucks.

His Stigness > SteveLehto 04/08/2016 at 02:27

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Yup! Or the previous owner should be liable when they didn’t do a pre purchase inspection.

computiNATEor > Floating Adam West 04/08/2016 at 03:05

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Mmm, depending on the driving conditions and oil used, a quality “designer” synthetic oil like those from Amsoil or Redline can do well in 10,000 mile change intervals. That said, most customers will just pour in Mobil 1 synthetic (which is really a blend) and ignore it, enjoying the price gap. For those, a 7,500 mile change is more realistic. But 15,000 is just asking for trouble. The bearings will begin to eat themselves alive, not to mention the sludge potential.

1995droptopz > jimz 04/08/2016 at 07:33

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I was picturing this the whole time. Forgot about the Neon though.

1995droptopz > SteveLehto 04/08/2016 at 07:40

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So I work for an automaker, and for emissions regulations we need to bring in customer cars at certain intervals and run emissions testing to prove that they hold up over the life of the vehicle. Last year we brought in this truck, and it had a CEL. Ended up being a recall that was never completed by the owner. We get it fixed no problems. Then we put it on the dyno, and after one test the thing starts running really poorly. Ended up spinning a bearing; I cannot recall if it was a rod or main. Anyway, we take it to the dealer to get the engine replaced for the customer, and find out that the thing is full of sludge and they will not replace it unless we can produce receipts for oil changes. Call the owner, and despite telling us he had regular oil changes, there are no receipts. We ended up having to pay nearly $8k to replace this engine because it happened to fail in our care.

fawgcutter > SteveLehto 04/08/2016 at 07:40

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Some did away with the primer and reformulated the electro-phosphate dip coating to act as the primer. Probably did happen to all three as all they use the same domestic paint suppliers, who would recommend application processes to compete.

MrBlahh > His Stigness 04/08/2016 at 08:03

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Just fyi 15k is pretty normal on a bmw/mini and they do run fine on regular the knock sensor takes care of it. The timing chain issue is a huge problem for mini, well documented and affecting basically every n14

Ninety-9 > His Stigness 04/08/2016 at 08:27

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I absolutely love it when people say “I’m going to treat my car to some premium gas, today.” People are mostly under the impression that high octane fuel isn’t necessary, but it’s somehow good or cleansing to run premium in their premium vehicle every so often .

n2_space > SteveLehto 04/08/2016 at 09:01

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I too share your love Explorers, we are on our third in a row. My dad worked at LAP where they were built at first.

ateamfan42 > SteveLehto 04/08/2016 at 09:07

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As you certainly know, they are right— you can sue them for anything. But I know you meant suing successfully. And with all the frivolous lawsuits one hears about in the news, it is no wonder so much of the public thinks any big corporation with deep pockets can be successfully sued for anything.

ateamfan42 > Floating Adam West 04/08/2016 at 09:12

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It amazes me that to this day people still don’t understand the concept of needing oil changes semi-regularly.

It is the modern view of the car as a disposable “appliance”. Buy one, use it ‘till it is worn out, then throw it away and by another. Preventative maintenance is too much hassle.

Remember grease fittings? Older cars had one on every ball joint, tie rod end, and U-joint. Regular lubrication extended the life of the components. But the common car owner couldn’t be bothered, so the maintenance was neglected and parts wore out quickly. Now all those joints are factory sealed. They last somewhat longer than neglected unsealed units, but not as long as properly maintained unsealed joints. When it breaks, throw it away and buy another!

SteveLehto > n2_space 04/08/2016 at 09:16

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And my brother worked at Ford truck, where he worked on the suspension design. (Which also got me my discount on a few of them.)

SteveLehto > ateamfan42 04/08/2016 at 09:18

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I’ve had people tell me that you can just sue a big corporation and they will pay because they are “scared” of the lawsuit. The opposite is true. Big corps have legal departments which laugh at frivolous suits. And fight legitimate ones tooth and nail.

ateamfan42 > anonymic 04/08/2016 at 09:20

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Certain crappy dealerships will tell you things contrary to the manufacturer’s standpoint. I think some are just lazy.

I made an appointment to have my Takata airbag replaced under recall at the local Mazda dealer. When I showed up for my appointment, they told me they hadn’t bothered to order parts and to go away. So despite the dealerships getting paid to do the work by the manfucturer, some just don’t want the business.

ateamfan42 > SteveLehto 04/08/2016 at 09:32

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The opposite is true.

Absolutely. If a person sues a big corporation, the plaintif is the one who needs to be scared— scared that even if they have a valid legal case, the large corporation’s deep pockets and massive legal department will give them the means to find a loophole out of the case.

SteveLehto > ateamfan42 04/08/2016 at 09:34

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Or, just litigate like its a game and just waste time and resources and grind you down. You cannot outspend or out-litigate a corporation.

Wil Haginen > SteveLehto 04/08/2016 at 09:35

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On the paint peeling issue, was it a Ford?

This is purely heresay back from when I was heavily involved with the auto industry, but here’s the story:

Ford had a known problem with a certain make and model having their paint jobs delaminate from the bare metals underneath. But it wasn’t every one of those models, just a large percent of them. After investigation, Ford determined that the ones that were affected were built by a factory in Mexico. And after further investigation, it was only the ones that were built around a certain shift. So they sent an investigator down to the plant to see what was going on.

If the story is true, it’s because the morning shift didn’t get a proper breakfast break. The workers would instead eat on the line, placing greasy breakfast taco wraps and such on the bare metal frame, which would cause the paint to not properly adhere later on.

Again, this is purely heresay, and it does seem incredible, but if your experiences with the paint issue was in fact Fords built in Mexico, it’d be an amusing coincidence.

SteveLehto > Wil Haginen 04/08/2016 at 09:42

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That story sounds like Snopes to me.

It was the paint process in the US, where they stopped priming the vehicles because they thought they had a new process that would work.

Wil Haginen > SteveLehto 04/08/2016 at 09:45

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Aye, hence the whole “heresay” disclaimer.

Anyways, thanks for these podcasts, I always enjoy them.

Montego Murph > jimz 04/08/2016 at 10:41

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Oh man. I worked at a rental car company in this era. Management ripped off a LOT of customers when cars would come back like this.
“I don’t know what happened, I took it through the car wash and the paint fell off.”
“You’re responsible for any damage while you have the car... unless you got our special protection package. Sorry!”

ronmler3 > Wil Haginen 04/08/2016 at 11:02

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“hearsay”

Wil Haginen > ronmler3 04/08/2016 at 11:37

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....how did I mess that up? Damn! Thanks for the correction.

ApolloX75 > SteveLehto 04/08/2016 at 11:38

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Wasn’t there also one in regards to GM’s painting system in California? I think it was the mid to late 80's when they switched to a water based paint system to comply with the painting emissions standards. I remember reading about it when I bought my third-gen Firebird. Ones assembled and painted in Van Nuys were (supposedly) often afflicted with bizarre paint issues and supposedly GM would do a respray.

I also remember one in regards to the notchback Trans Am and the fiberglass hatch would crack apart over time. The 80's were messed up.

Formito > SteveLehto 04/08/2016 at 12:18

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Hey Steve, I love your posts and podcasts and this is my first comment on one. I bought a 2011 Audi A4 with one of the infamous oil consumption issues from a non-Audi dealer last year. I’m the 3rd owner on it but it has a full history report of getting work done at audi dealerships. Because of the “Oil Consumption Settlement”, I thought I’d be eligible for the free repairs if my car failed the test(which it definitely will) but the dealership is telling me that if it does fail the test and they have to remove the engine to replace the failing seals, there is still an $85 charge for the process(which is small, but I’m knitpicking here) as well as over $900 in charges for checking the timing belt and a few other parts while the engine is out. They said that this extra bit is because I bought it from a non-audi used dealership so it’s no longer under an Audi warranty. Is this all bunk or do I have to pay?

Floating Adam West > computiNATEor 04/08/2016 at 13:11

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Right, 10,000 isn’t crazy for some people based on how they drive and their typical conditions. I do Amsoil with my truck, but after sending it off to Blackstone my sweet spot is right around 7.5-8k.

His Stigness > MrBlahh 04/08/2016 at 14:00

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BMW has since lowered the interval to 10k miles, and any good technician will tell their customer to do even less. I’ve pulled the valve cover on cars that did 15k mile BMW oil changes with a considerable amount of sludge with only 100k miles.

And yes, they "handle" it, but in the long run its not good for the engine as it was never designed to run on regular.

His Stigness > Ninety-9 04/08/2016 at 14:00

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Ignorance is bliss.

MrBlahh > His Stigness 04/08/2016 at 14:34

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I cut ours in half, one free one on me and I’ve never had a tech tell me it’s good or bad. I’ve bought cars that went by bmw intervals and so far not had any sludge or wear issues thankfully bmw’s have a pretty large oil capacity in most models.

His Stigness > MrBlahh 04/08/2016 at 14:43

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Some techs and shop owners just done care. Dealers can’t really tell you to do anything different than what the manufacturer recommends, and neither can the techs. Most independent shops though tell customers they should X instead of the manufacturers recommended Y. Most of the time customers don’t listen.

Also, BMW dealers generally use BG products, which will combat sludge. Using BG EPR (can’t remember the part number), which is a flush, will clean up the engine quite well if you do every oil change, and BG MOA will make sure that there is a sufficient additive package in the oil to last 15k miles. But if the dealer sells it an option, and people are cheap, sludge will accumulate over time, and if any oil change is done using oil that does bit meet BMW’s specification, it will get worse.

And I remembered I actually took a picture of the car I was talking about. 100k miles on 15k mile oil changes not using BG, and possibly using quick lube oil:

And that's not even that bad for the other cars my shop has seen (but any sludge is unacceptable, period).

SteveLehto > Formito 04/08/2016 at 14:50

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If it’s out of warranty, you pay. Take what you can get and run!

Cyclone > SteveLehto 04/08/2016 at 15:07

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Steve, I have found that your topics look like the hey would be interesting, but I am not a Podcast person and thus, do not get to enjoy them. Have you thought of providing a text version or transcript of these? This is coming from an assumption that you may script your podcast before recording it, so it would hopefully be easy to provide that.

SteveLehto > Cyclone 04/08/2016 at 15:34

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Actually, I wing them. Many of these things I have written about just not this one.

Xyl0c41n3 > SteveLehto 04/08/2016 at 16:59

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Hey Steve, I’ve got a question.

I drive a Fiesta with a DCT that’s subject to the pretty widespread recall for issues with the transmission, clutch, and/or transmission seals. It’s just one of four recalls my car was subject to.

I took the car into the dealership in January for them to take care of them. (Actually, my dad did because I couldn’t take time off work). They made three of the repairs, but not the fourth: the one regarding the transmission. They didn’t even examine the transmission. To quote the service guy I spoke with, “We don’t go looking for problems in people’s cars.”

Anyway, long story short, I made them examine the transmission, they found the clutch was faulty and told me it would take a month and a half for a new clutch to come in. Again, dad had dropped it off. He said they told him they did some sort of stop-gap repair measure to tide me over until the clutch comes in.

I called them a week and a half ago and the clutch STILL isn’t in, plus there’s no ETA on when they’ll get it or how many other people ahead of me are waiting for the same part.

I just looked on NHTSA’s website right now and plugged in my VIN... there are no longer any open recalls listed for my vehicle.

The dealership returned the car to me and I’ve been driving it daily since January. They said they couldn’t provide a loaner, they won’t tell me when they can finish the repairs, and now the federal website makes it look like no repairs are needed at all? Not to mention my transmission shudder is getting progressively worse.

What can I do? FWIW, I live in Texas.

ronmler3 > SteveLehto 04/08/2016 at 17:17

1

One can sue anyone at any time - it doesn’t mean one will succeed....

ronmler3 > anonymic 04/08/2016 at 17:41

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That doesn’t mean the dealer is correct. Sometimes, people lie....

ronmler3 > sklooner 04/08/2016 at 17:51

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I presume you’re going to sue....?

ronmler3 > 1995droptopz 04/08/2016 at 17:55

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Next time ask for maintenance records. I would think that would be pretty important historical data for your testing program, anayway.....you would only want to test a vehicle that had had at least the required maintenance.

anonymic > ronmler3 04/08/2016 at 19:15

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I hadn’t thought of that!

sklooner > ronmler3 04/08/2016 at 20:08

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Im saving my legal work for the timing guide failure on my 2 litre TSI

SchwarzeEwigkt > Formito 04/09/2016 at 01:50

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$900 for a timing belt? Man, that’s impressive. I did the timing belt along with a bunch of other stuff on my B5 Audi. I think the timing belt kit with a belt, tensioner, idler, and sprocket was $115. This was one of those Gates kits. It was all labor, ripping the whole front of the car off. Maybe the newer ones are just that much different, but I don’t understand how they can justify charging you for that if the engine is already coming out for a rebuild. They have to take all that stuff off anyway. If anything, you should just have to pay for timing parts.

I'm operating on the understanding that the solution for the oil consumption issue is new rings. I recall reading that someplace.

UltArc > SteveLehto 04/10/2016 at 08:35

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A transcript? I’m not even asking for an article...

1995droptopz > ronmler3 04/11/2016 at 06:25

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The government dictates what we may screen for, so asking for maintenance records gives us information that we cannot use. There are strict rules with the program that must be followed or it would be considered cheating.

mrrich > SteveLehto 04/11/2016 at 14:21

1

Formito (and Steve), I have found with Audi dealers, the way you are treated has a lot to do with the relationship you develop with the service techs and the manager. Like you I had a (out of warranty) 2007 A4 2.0T Avant with the oil consumption issue, I was the second owner and had purchased it from a private mom-and-pop dealership. After complaining a few times my service rep went above and beyond to get approval from AoA to do a full seal and gasket replacement, for free. Did it help we had bought a car with them before? Sure. Did it help that we had another A4 that we serviced with them? Sure. But this is just one of many occasions where the dealership provided free service, for an out of warranty to car purchased from a non-Audi dealer. I would ask a few other dealerships to see what they can do for you.

honor first > Wil Haginen 04/11/2016 at 14:42

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This was true for a few. Early 90s GMs were defective when painted white. They repainted a lot of them for free. Happened on the 1991 1500 that my dad bought new that I got as my first truck.

One of the most notorious is Ford’s white paint, especially on the panther platform Vics and Grand Marquis. I don’t think they straightened it out until 2008, and up until that point it was a 50/50 dice roll.

I have been told by paint guys that white paint, in general, due to the chemical something or the other to make white paint, adheres the least effectively of all colors as well.

General Mayhem > jimz 04/12/2016 at 10:03

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I’ll call your Neon and raise you a Crown Vic:

General Mayhem > Umrguy42: Add $5 for shipping and handling 04/12/2016 at 10:12

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I got over 100k our of a set of Hercules tires on my long gone ‘77 Silverado.

General Mayhem > Wil Haginen 04/12/2016 at 10:19

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Ford had a HUGE paint problem on vehicles (mostly F Series but a lot of Rangers and Mustangs, too) built from ‘87 to ‘91. Didn’t matter what plant they were built in. Silver, medium grey, and a certain shade of medium blue metallic were very prone to peeling. Worked at a small Ford stare that did a hell of a lot of repaints under warranty.